Comments on: Metalworking Survey Finds Those Who Change, Thrive

By: Sir Loin

Sir Loin — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:11:07 +0000

We do this because it is fun. We MAKE things. We have tangible, quantifiable results on a bench or in a pallet at the end of every day. We can measure our work; there is no gray area. Either we made the part in the time allotted and to tolerances given, or we didn’t. Not very arbitrary. Very refreshing in a service and information based economy. As a machine shop manager for a union shop in Northern California, I know what its like to hire folks. As an applications engineer for three years, I know what its like to train people to do this stuff. My best machinists are Americans through and through. They may have grown up with 7.62 flying around their heads, but they know what they’ve got now. It seems the indigenous folks are my biggest hurdles these days. Oh yeah, ever seen any wood buildings in ancient Israel? No? Wood was for chariots, ships, and machinery. Jesus was a machinist.

By: Hardmilling

Hardmilling — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:07:22 +0000

Doug, The plumber you’re talking about that makes $50 an hour is a contract person that has to pay for his own health insurance, gas, tools, vehicle and maybe a building. The plumber that works for someone else only makes around $15 if he’s lucky.

Manufacturing wages are based on location, if you’re living in Minnesota a starting machinist is making $17 an hour if you’re in Michigan you’re making $25 an hour doing the same work. If you want the big money you need to go where the big money is. The other thing that will get you more money is what you know. The highest paid machinist I know of today makes $150,000.00 a year. I also know a lot of machinist that are in the $80,000 to $100,000.00 a year range because of what they know.

As far as the schools today, Richard is correct; the schools can’t keep up on technology. When a student comes out of a 2 year degree he knows what we did as machinist 20 years ago. Think about what he is worth to a progressive shop. He has the ability to load parts and push a button. He didn’t learn how to program 4 and 5 axis machining centers using models from the advanced Cad/Cam systems, and we don’t square blocks up anymore! They have to work their way up in the company just like we did to make more money, and a lot of kids don’t want to do that today. My son is 23 and a Forman over a large medical shop. He started machining when he was around 14 years old. He got his degree in machining and then worked for progressive shops to learn about today’s technology – for not a lot of money. Now he is making good money because he kept driving himself to learn and know more then the next guy.

Manufacturing isn’t going away in the USA, Its only getting more competitive because of the world market. We have processes today that can make us number one on the market. Shops that embrace High Speed Machining, Hard Milling and Automation are making it. It’s the shops that still machine tool steels at 10 to 30 inches a minute that aren’t making any money. As I travel around and evaluate shops, I see them still using basic carbide and even high speed steel end mills on mold and die material. These are the shops that can’t make money in today’s market. There is still a lot of opportunity in manufacturing today but you have to work for it, keep learning and keep up with the technology.

By: John

John — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:46:50 +0000

Hey Doug,
Don’t be so sure, my brother pusured acting, drama and music, moved to LA to make it big in entertainment 11 years ago and is paying the bills as a personal trainer. I’ve also got a friend who’s 23 year old kid learned how to run high speed machines and is making about 80 grand a year.

By: Doug

Doug — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:51:38 +0000

If I knew then what I know now I would have concentrated on drama, music and sports in high school and college. It seems that there is lots more money to be made in entertainment than in producing something of real material value. At least I still like what I do.

Neal writes about a lack of qualified people. The smarter students today see what I missed and go after the easy money, Law & Finance. Even Plumbers and auto mechanics make more than a lot of manufacturing engineers. Ever try to get a plumber for less than $50 per hour? Look at labor rates even in a small town auto repair shop, $35 per hour is a bargain and thats before a mark up on parts. True they need to work for themselves to profit the most but it’s not too hard to set up your own shop if you have the skill and you get to set your own hours too.

I might be cynical but I told my children to try something other than engineering and manufacturing. They are all making more than they could have started at in a production or manufacturing position. Only time will tell but based on personal observation I expect them to surpass my current salary in less than one third the time it took me to get where I am.

Too bad they didn’t get into acting or sports.

By: Richard Stape

Richard Stape — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:04:57 +0000

I somewht agree with the comments posted. As an instructor of machining students, I find that most of my students have to go on to engineering school or leave the area to earn a livable wage. My employers expect them to have the latest technical akills but do nothing to help provide current technology for me to teach with. Our school does its best to provide some technology but as fast as the world of manufacturing is changing, they just can’t aford to keep pace. We need industry to step up to the plate and commit to helping training our young people then paying them enough that they can afford to go to work everyday and provide for themselves and their families.

Personally, I believe we should close our borders, bring home all of our troops and commit all the money now being given to foreign countries to educating our own until everyone in this country is gainfully employed. Nothing going out, nothing getting in…. NO EXCEPTIONS! Without manufacturing we can’t survive in any economy.

By: Neal

Neal — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:38:16 +0000

In today’s manufacturing, there are more and more unqualified employees and less people willing to learn the trade for the starting pay.
Also the fact that the cost of living in large manufacturing areas is too high and commuting is costing more and more because of the rise in fuel.
Plus a typical competitor to the U.S. company is a third world company ran by American know how, with typical American greed to succeed.
Until the cost of fuel and the rise of pay for knowledge output is even, and American government stops overseas American greed, American manufacturing will be as common as horse back riding is today. The people that are qualified will work out of there homes to turn China into a superpower and America will continue to decline.
With-out Manufacturing America will lose its power and train other countries on how to succeed.